Here goes attempt #6 at posting

Hamas forces seize and loot Abbas’ presidential compound and Fatah ‘Preventive Security Forces’ headquarters in Gaza City. Other major security and intelligence compounds are also captured, finalizing Hamas’ control over Gaza City. To the south, Rafah falls into Hamas control with minimal casualties. After controlling the majority of the Gaza Strip’s cities and refugee camps, Hamas takes control over the main north-south road as well as the coastal road and southern border with Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks

Israel and the new Palestinian government open formal contacts. The Jewish state tightens a blockade of Gaza.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

June 19: An Egyptian mediated ceasefire begins between Hamas and Israel. The Palestinian movement agrees to stop firing rockets as Israel accepts to gradually ease its embargo on the Gaza Strip.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

March 3 2008
The two sides agreed under pressure from U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to resume the U.S.-backed talks on Wednesday after the Palestinians suspended them in protest of an Israeli offensive in Gaza that killed more than 125 people including 1 month old infant girl named “Amira Abu Asr”.[182][180]. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert signalled willingness to stop attacks after the five-day offensive, which killed many civilians in the territory, if the Islamist group Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel. Hamas says attacks from Gaza, including rockets fired by its own militants and others, are a response to Israeli military operations in both Gaza and the occupied West Bank and would end if Israel stopped all such activity and lifted its blockade

Dec. 18 – Hamas Islamists declare the end of the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel which expires the next day with a surge of cross-border fighting.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

December 19 2008: The six-month truce officially ends.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

Hamas forces seize and loot Abbas’ presidential compound and Fatah ‘Preventive Security Forces’ headquarters in Gaza City. Other major security and intelligence compounds are also captured, finalizing Hamas’ control over Gaza City. To the south, Rafah falls into Hamas control with minimal casualties. After controlling the majority of the Gaza Strip’s cities and refugee camps, Hamas takes control over the main north-south road as well as the coastal road and southern border with Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks

Israel and the new Palestinian government open formal contacts. The Jewish state tightens a blockade of Gaza.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

June 19: An Egyptian mediated ceasefire begins between Hamas and Israel. The Palestinian movement agrees to stop firing rockets as Israel accepts to gradually ease its embargo on the Gaza Strip.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

March 3 2008
The two sides agreed under pressure from U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to resume the U.S.-backed talks on Wednesday after the Palestinians suspended them in protest of an Israeli offensive in Gaza that killed more than 125 people including 1 month old infant girl named “Amira Abu Asr”.[182][180]. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert signalled willingness to stop attacks after the five-day offensive, which killed many civilians in the territory, if the Islamist group Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel. Hamas says attacks from Gaza, including rockets fired by its own militants and others, are a response to Israeli military operations in both Gaza and the occupied West Bank and would end if Israel stopped all such activity and lifted its blockade

Dec. 18 – Hamas Islamists declare the end of the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel which expires the next day with a surge of cross-border fighting.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

December 19 2008: The six-month truce officially ends.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

TIMELINE: Israeli-Hamas violence since truce ended
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE4BR2CE20081230

TIMELINE of Rocket and Mortar attacks on Israel in 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2008

TIMELINE of Israeli-Arab Peace initiatives
http://europenews.dk/en/node/6651

meatbrain hasn’t managed to prove a single thing-not even that his own post is complete BS, and his claims that I’m a far right wingnut are completely unwarranted. Too bad, but I understand-after all, the poor guy thinks Obama’s Israel/Gaza policy is about taking delight in “lobbing bombs into populated Palestinian areas.” Yeah, Obama’s a real right winger alright.

Since you can’t do any research on your own, and you can’t even reason, here’s a few interesting links to back up Obama’s policy and opinion on Israel/Gaza:

June 14, 2007

Hamas forces seize and loot Abbas’ presidential compound and Fatah ‘Preventive Security Forces’ headquarters in Gaza City. Other major security and intelligence compounds are also captured, finalizing Hamas’ control over Gaza City. To the south, Rafah falls into Hamas control with minimal casualties. After controlling the majority of the Gaza Strip’s cities and refugee camps, Hamas takes control over the main north-south road as well as the coastal road and southern border with Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks

Israel and the new Palestinian government open formal contacts. The Jewish state tightens a blockade of Gaza.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

June 19: An Egyptian mediated ceasefire begins between Hamas and Israel. The Palestinian movement agrees to stop firing rockets as Israel accepts to gradually ease its embargo on the Gaza Strip.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

March 3 2008
The two sides agreed under pressure from U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to resume the U.S.-backed talks.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert signalled willingness to stop attacks after the five-day offensive, which killed many civilians in the territory, if the Islamist group Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel. Hamas says attacks from Gaza, including rockets fired by its own militants and others, are a response to Israeli military operations in both Gaza and the occupied West Bank and would end if Israel stopped all such activity and lifted its blockade

Dec. 18 – Hamas Islamists declare the end of the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel which expires the next day with a surge of cross-border fighting.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LT459032.htm

December 19 2008: The six-month truce officially ends.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=79964&sectionid=3510304

TIMELINE: Israeli-Hamas violence since truce ended
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE4BR2CE20081230

TIMELINE of Rocket and Mortar attacks on Israel in 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2008

TIMELINE of Israeli-Arab Peace initiatives
http://europenews.dk/en/node/6651

Like I said, Israel tried diplomacy well over a year ago, but Hamas (the terrorist group that pulled a coup in Gaza, the group that opposed the Oslo Accord, the group that started the Intifadah) blew it off shortly after Egypt brokered the deal. Later, at the insisting of the US (and EU+UN) a new, series of 6 month cease-fires were tried. Each time, Hamas broke it-even so brazen as to announce they were breaking it in December 08..TWICE. Israel took the attacks on their civilians for another week or so, then struck back just as President Obama says they have a right to do.

Where’s the proof that I “delight” in killing of people as claimed by meatbrain in the “shorter scott malensek” post?

Face it meatbrain, just ‘cause I post at a conservative site doesn’t mean I’m a conservative, right winger, wingnut, or whatever name you wanna call me. You’ve provided no proof of that at all.

Nice attempt at dodging your fallacy meatbrain, but you’re accusing ME of being a on the far right fringe of American politics doesn’t work now, didn’t work in the past, and won’t work in the future because it’s not the cause: my focus is on foreign policy, and when it comes to foreign policy Barack Obama and I see eye to eye-no partisan difference.

Look! Malensek quoted Obama! That means he can’t possibly be a wingnut! See!? See!?

You seem lost, dazed, and confused without the ability to tie ugly foreign policy to the right now that Bush is leaving, Obama is continuing Bush policies, and those policies are no longer the far right of the spectrum as you wish they were.

Huh. Where in the post above, or this comment thread, did I attempt to “tie ugly foreign policy to the right”? Answer: Nowhere, of course. When in doubt, wingnuts like Malensek will scramble to construct a straw man — any straw man at all.

btw, Israel DID try diplomacy for well over year…

BECAUSE! SCOTT! MALENSEK! SAID! SO! But don’t ask him to actually provide facts to back up his claims…

A simple google of “Israel+gaza+diploatic efforts+timeline” will give you plenty of sites detailing this.

...because backing up a wingnut’s claims is always someone else’s job.

Sorry, those were Barack Obama’s words you responded to-not Malensek.

Nice attempt at dodging your fallacy meatbrain, but you’re accusing ME of being a on the far right fringe of American politics doesn’t work now, didn’t work in the past, and won’t work in the future because it’s not the cause: my focus is on foreign policy, and when it comes to foreign policy Barack Obama and I see eye to eye-no partisan difference.

You seem lost, dazed, and confused without the ability to tie ugly foreign policy to the right now that Bush is leaving, Obama is continuing Bush policies, and those policies are no longer the far right of the spectrum as you wish they were.

btw, Israel DID try diplomacy for well over year, but-to paraphrase your own words-meatbrain ‘expects others to do what he will not. ’ and provide a timeline or something showing how Israel agreed to a series of cease-fires (the first mediated by Egypt, the second and third by the Bush Admin), but Hamas broke them (repeatedly). A simple google of “Israel+gaza+diploatic efforts+timeline” will give you plenty of sites detailing this.

Ultimately, my point remains the same, and even more proven: the “shorter scott malensek” post was complete horseshit (to use a meatbrain word) because
1) I repeatedly pointed out that I do not “delight” or anything remotely close to that when it comes to people being killed
2) my position in the FA article was the same as Barack Obama’s 2007 and 2008 positions (quoted and paraphrased earlier repeatedly).
3) Meatbrain’s ego prevents him from simply saying, “yeah, sorry ‘bout that. Your position is not on the far right of the American political spectrum, but is the same as President Obama’s, and he’s hardly on the far right.” Step up meatbrain. Admit it, your kneejerk need to tie ugly foreign policy realities to the right doesn’t work now that Obama’s been elected, and by the tenor of your posts you’re clearly confused, lost, frustrated, and ego-blocked.

The “shorter scott malensek” post is BS

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=090103214058.23r7czam&show_article=1

In a July interview with The New York Times, Obama said he did not think that “any country would find it acceptable to have missiles raining down on the heads of their citizens.

“If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that,” he said. “And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.”

As for talking with Hamas, Obama told the Times that it was “very hard to negotiate with a group that is not representative of a nation state, does not recognize your right to exist, has consistently used terror as a weapon, and is deeply influenced by other countries.”

If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.

Which means that Malensek is, in fact, in favor of the Israelis lobbing bombs into populated Palestinian areas.

as for negotiating w Hamas, a list of diplomatic contacts, etc….do you deny it?

And again, we see that Malensek cannot supply any facts to support one of his claims. If it walks like a wingnut and quacks like a wingnut…

This is my position, and President-elect Obama’s. It’s not a position on the far right of the American political spectrum as you claim I am ensconced

Notice again how Malensek pretends that his far right views are somehow magically irrelevant simply because he compares himself to Barack Obama. How transparently dishonest can one wingnut be?

as for negotiating w Hamas, a list of diplomatic contacts, etc….do you deny it? I mean, let’s face it, it’s very hard to negotiate with a group that is not representative of a nation state, does not recognize your right to exist, has consistently used terror as a weapon, and is deeply influenced by other countries.

This is my position, and President-elect Obama’s. It’s not a position on the far right of the American political spectrum as you claim I am ensconced

Notice as well that meatbrain dodges, distracts, and attacks rather than suggest.

Malensek still expects others to do what he will not. No hypocrisy on his part there.

Instead, he tries to label my suggestion of looking at both sides as if I’m the one that’s partisan…

False. I made no comment whatever on Malensek’s supposed “suggestion of looking at both sides”. Malensek now descends to outright lying.

...as my suggestion that Israel has a right to defend itself is on the “far right fringes of American politics.”

And here we have yet more Malensek mendacity. I have, of course, never suggested that a belief that Israel has a right to defend itself puts one on the far right fringes of American politics.

Seems to me President-elect Obama recognizes the terrorist threat to Israel. Not sure how my position is different from his.

No one in American politics suggests that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. This hardly means that Malensek and Obama occupy similar segments of the political spectrum. Such an utterly ludicrous equivalence is not surprising, coming from a wingnut.

It’s simple, Hamas attacked Israel-targeted Israeli civilians. Israel tried diplomacy for a year.

I invite Malensek to provide a concise list of all of Israel’s diplomatic contacts with Hamas over the past year.

Seems to me President-elect Obama recognizes the terrorist threat to Israel. Not sure how my position is different from his.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaIsrael.htm

Yeah, not sure at all how my position differs from President-elect Obama’s. Maybe meatbrain thinks that Obama is on the “far right fringes of American politics”?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/us/politics/23text-obama.html?_r=1&pagewan

It’s simple, Hamas attacked Israel-targeted Israeli civilians. Israel tried diplomacy for a year. That didn’t work, so now Israel has no other choice but to defend itself, and while that means people will be killed in Gaza, it’s not like Hamas didn’t bring that upon them. Perhaps Hamas should have built bomb shelters rather than tunnels, and shouldn’t hide in Mosques, apartment building basements, schools, etc.? Yes, no?

am I making it up that Hamas started this? Nope, and that was President-elect Obama’s position in 2007 and 2008…specifically on July 23, 2008 as he spoke in front of a wall of Hamas rockets.
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00040/IN5283388U_S_-Democr_40196a.jpg

Obama and I are not on the far right of American politics, and I’d be interested to see where we differ on foreign policy.

I suggest that civilians on both sides don’t deserve to die, don’t need to die, and that it’s the distorted, one-sided, partisan crap from apologists like meatbrain that keeps this tit for tat war going more than anything else.

Be specific, Malensek. What or who, exactly, have I apologized for?

Put up a pic of Hama firing unguided rockets next to a pic of Israel firing laser guided rockets at military targets protected by human shields (like the ones in that pic above).

Well, they were merely human shields. No need to concern ourselves with their deaths, eh?

Seriously, what do you think Israel should do meatbrain? Sit around and continue letting more and more of their civilians die from rocket attacks? Don’t just be a whining bitch. Step up and suggest a solution.

Notice that Malensek expects other to do what he will not. Such intellectual bravery…

Opposing the right doesn’t do anything anymore. Nothing, nada, zip, and I’m not even “the right.”

What laughable, mendacious bullshit. No honest person can read Scott Malensek’s babblings and believe that he is not firmly esconced on the far right fringes of American politics.

Please, tell me, what is a proportional response (also second time, not including the time I asked in my article)?

Really, what would you have Israel do in response to the rocket attacks? They have families dying too, but you’re silent on that. Why? Let’s play “shorter meatbrain”

-”Don’t ask yourself if this was the result of a disproportionate response, folks. The Jews deserve it, and the Palestinians don’t”

I suggest that civilians on both sides don’t deserve to die, don’t need to die, and that it’s the distorted, one-sided, partisan crap from apologists like meatbrain that keeps this tit for tat war going more than anything else. Wanna REALLY discuss the awful war? If so…then put up an emotional pic of Israelis killed next to an emotional pic of Palestinians killed. Put up a pic of Hama firing unguided rockets next to a pic of Israel firing laser guided rockets at military targets protected by human shields (like the ones in that pic above).

Seriously, what do you think Israel should do meatbrain? Sit around and continue letting more and more of their civilians die from rocket attacks? Don’t just be a whining bitch. Step up and suggest a solution.

No ideas? That doesn’t bode well for the Democrats who control everything now and even more so in 19days. They need your help. As it is, they’re dazed, confused, and silent. The party is eating itself up over the 09 agenda, the stimulus package, Gaza, and how after 6years of opposing the war in Iraq they’re gonna market continuing it indefinitely. Help em out on at least this one-tell em what to do in response to the war over Gaza. Opposing the right doesn’t do anything anymore. Nothing, nada, zip, and I’m not even “the right.”