HoosierArmyMom says she “has a problem” with Barack Obama. Well, she’s half right — she has a problem, but it isn’t with Obama…
Other problems I have are, first of all, the fact that he wants to be President of this county but refuses to wear a flag lapel pin that all the other members of Congress wear. The flag is symbol of something bigger than us all. It is a symbol of what men have fought and sacrificed life and limb to protect… Our Country! Regardless of how anyone feels about any given war this country has been engaged in, there is not a more selfless act anyone can do than to “put it all on the line” to defend their home, hearth and brothers-at-arms. I have a problem with a man who would not want to follow in the tradition of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, Kennedy , etc (in that the flag meant something to them) and feels offended about wearing a flag lapel pin. And then there is the fact that he has been photographed just standing with his arms at his sides during the National Anthem. The hand on the heart honors those who have paid for our freedom in blood, the fact that our heart is pumping and we have lived our lives in a free and prosperous nation, is a debt we owe to a lot of 18,19, 20, etc year olds who gave up their opportunity to have such a life on beaches like Omaha, Iwo Jima, etc., so I look at it as millions of us not yet born, got this terrific life because those selfless young men went out there and defended our democracy and way of life. That is worth more to me than a gesture like placing my hand over my heart, but there is no way to repay that debt, so the hand goes on the heart everytime. But not so with Obama. He can dance on TV with Ellen, but he can’t put his hand on his heart during our National Anthem.
See the problem? That’s right… HAM, like most of the extreme wingnut whackjobs, focuses wholly on symbolism, and foregoes any discussion of the substance of Obama’s positions. It is apparent that she has formed her opinion of Obama based solely on the baseless smears being circulated in the wingnutosphere. There’s no indication that she has given any serious consideration to his positions on the issues facing this country, nor any sign that she is even capable of doing so.
HoosierArmyMom is emblematic of an inability of much of the electorate to conduct rational debate of the problems facing this nation, an inability that pervades the entire political spectrum. So long as alleged adults insist on being distracted by trivial symbolism and ignore actual substance, this country will continue to get the political leadership it deserves, instead of the leadership it needs.
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January 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Pingback from Presidential election 2008 |Republicans Vs. Democrats » Mom has a problem, all right…
January 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Pingback from ThinkingMeat · Hey, HoosierArmyMom… Listen Up!
January 17th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
HoosierArmyMom
Once again Meaty, you cherry pick and engage in verbal abuse. How is it I have “forgone any discussion” when my posting invites the discussion. You just don’t engage your narrow mind in any kind of intelligent debate or exchange of ideas. Never! You would much rather express your hatred for people who hold other opinions by cherry picking through what they say and then presenting it on this blog as an attack complete with your brand of ignorant verbal abuse. Nothing intelligent about your method or presentation. You like to name call and “pretend you know something”. My feeling about that is… if you did know something important and had confidence in your beliefs, why not would you not express it. You don’t do that because you are nothing more than a lying troll. Now either express what Obama’s stances are on the issues that may or may not resolve my concerns about him or knock it off. I really wish you do somthing besides verbally abuse women and teenagers and express your ideas without all the venom.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
meatbrain
What I said, Mom, was that your post forgoes any discussion of the substance of Obama’s positions. It is quite apparent that you are happy to discuss endlessly the smears that have been made against him, and even help propagate them. But there is no indication that you are the least interested, or capable, of actually discussing his positions.
What are your concerns about Obama’s stances on the issues? If you care to start that discussion here, I will be more than happy to pursue the matter.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:20 am
kender
January 18th, 2008 at 8:33 am
meatbrain
shitmonkey misses the point, as usual. There is no substance to the right-wing hysteria regarding the absence of a flag pin on Obama’s lapel. It’s meaningless in the greater context of determining whether the man is a capable leader, one who has ideas that could benefit this nation.
Wingers like HoosierArmyMom obsess on the lapel pin question precisely because they are unwilling or unable to discuss matters of substance.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Protest Warrior
No lapel pin and no respect for the United States, evidenced by not covering his heart with his hand at a public forum.
Nicely done Meathead, you proved our point
http://saynototheleft.blogspot.com/2007/11/do-you-really-want-to-vote-for-this.html
January 18th, 2008 at 10:13 am
meatbrain
What point, PW? The fact is that, just as in HoosierArmyMom’s case, you are unwilling or unable to discuss matters of substance in this election. You prefer — or have no choice but to — focus on the insubstantial smears promulgated by the wingnut right.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
kender
True story;
I was on a plane from D.C., sitting next to us was a girl editing obama vids on her laptop. She turned out to be obama’s video editor. After engaging her on her candidates lack of experience and socialist position (and making her visibly upset, judging by the smile that didn’t reach her eyes) I wished her candidate well in attaining the nomination.
She visibly perked up and the smile finally rewached her eyes as she said thank you. I finished with “Yeah, he’s gonna be a lot easier to beat than hillary. She scowled and stormed away.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
meatbrain
shitmonkey demonstrates once again that it, too, is unwilling or unable to discuss matters of substance.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:14 am
kender
Folks, we are seeing meaty play his regular game…..make accusations and then refuse to discuss.
Come on meaty…..no answer? You afraid to talk about actual issues?
2-1 meaty refuses to answer…any takers?
January 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
kender
I see my icon is up, which means meaty has been around, and still no response…..too bad nobody took that bet.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
HoosierArmyMom
Please note the definition:
Main Entry: pro•to•col
Pronunciation: prō-tə-käl
Function: noun
A code prescribing strict adherence to correct etiquette and precedence (as in diplomatic exchange and in the military services)
reference the U.S. Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Section 171 for the proper protocol:
“During a rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed
(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention
facing the flag with the right hand over the heart; (B) men not in
uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold
the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;”
Aren’t Presidents supposed to be aware of and follow protocol?? Especially if they are working on foreign policy?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Dixie
Actual issues? You think you’re talking about actual issues? You’ve stopped at “Omigod…look how he doesn’t rub blue mud in his navel like the rest of us have been doing to lay claim to our righteousness!” (hat tip to Heinlein)
One actual issue — according to Obama, not according to fevered imaginings based on not following the herd — are that Obama feels the commander of the National Guard ought to have a seat with the Joint Chiefs of Staff to recognize that a half million Guard and Reserve have been called upon in Iraq and Afghanistan, the greatest number since WWII. So, I ask myself: do I want him to wear the pin or to fulfill that goal? I see a voice for that group of honorable veterans as a higher good than an inexpensive pin, hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions?) of which are made in China.
Now, with the hand over the heart during the national anthem deal, I don’t imagine that you charge through the stands at sporting events decrying attendees with their hands at their sides as unAmerican. I imagine that you might realize that the protocol you’re citing is in the code for Patriotic and National Observances, which isn’t really the case at a barbecue (where the incident happened). Even so, since there are other photos of Obama with his hand over his heart during the national anthem at other events, I guess you might have to say that he’s always moved to stand respectfully but doesn’t feel a jingoistic need to assume a ritual arm position.
How American! Freedom of expression!
January 19th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Dixie
lol…I didn’t know that a double hyphen (for a dash) would change to strikethrough. Live and learn.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:24 am
meatbrain
The strikethrough has been repaired, Dixie.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Dixie
Thanks for the repair. (I only wish I had caught the subject-verb agreement error in that sentence!)
I dislike this observance “argument” because it can strike close to home, too. I have had students who, for religious reasons, didn’t stand to say the pledge as it is announced over the PA system each morning in my school. They are certainly in the minority, but that lack of activity can put them in the majority of students who are regularly bullied or shunned for their differences.
I make it a point in the first weeks of school to remain seated myself from time to time so that I can explain to my students that the only punishable offense during the pledge comes from disruption, and disruption would be punishable in things from instruction to individual reading time to fire drills. Want to continue finishing your forgotten homework during the pledge and moment of silence? Do it—just don’t disturb anyone who is participating. Want to stand and listen rather than recite? No problem. Want to recite everything except “under God”? Feel free. Walking down the hall when the pledge comes over the PA? Stop and face (through the walls) the flag in front of the school if you wish, but if you do not, don’t disturb anyone who does. Have an armload of books with no nearby surface to put them on? Don’t worry about the hand over the heart if you’d like to participate.
If we erase from our history everything except rote patriotism, we do not get today’s America. If we today demand rote responses to demonstrate patriotism, what do we get for tomorrow’s America?
Sometimes I say the original pledge silently to myself: “I Pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.” And while I remember it, I also remember that the original salute included movement: hand over heart until the word “Flag,” then straight arm pointing (palm up replacing the original palm down) at the flag. That movement was dropped, of course, when the “best” example of rote patriotism impacted the world.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
meatbrain
I was not aware of the history of the salute to the flag during the Pledge, Dixie. Thanks for passing that on.
What we see in HoosierArmyMom and others of her ilk is a preference for, as you put it, rote responses to demonstrate patriotism over any actual ideas. It is the latter that Mom could discuss, but chooses not to.