A few questions about Qana

August 3, 2006 in Political Animals | 22 comments

Heidi claims to have ‘hoax fatigue’. Frankly, the real fatigue arises from having to watch Heidi work so hard to minimize and marginalize the deaths of civilians in Lebanon, day after day after day. The dead were only "Muslim morons", remember, and the children who were killed "never really had a chance in life anyway". It becomes obvious that Heidi is waging her own little propaganda war, doing her damnedest to ensure that no one who reads her words will make the mistake of thinking that those who dies in Qana were really human beings. Nope, they were only Muslims. Move along, folks.

Here are a few questions for Heidi regarding her recent obsession with the aftermath of the Israeli airstrike on Qana. Let’s see if the has the courage to answer them.

  1. Do you believe that any Lebanese civilians at all were killed in the Israeli airstrike in Qana on July 31?
  2. If yes, how many Lebanese civilians were killed? What is your source for this number?
  3. Which specific photos of the civilian victims of the Qana airstrike do you regard as fraudulent? In each instance, please cite the specific evidence of fraud.
  4. You state that "There’s enough death and tragedy in war without having to make things up". What specifically has been “made up” as regards the Qana airstrike?
  5. You state that, contrary to an article in Haaretz, "the phones weren’t down" in Qana the night of the attack. What specific, direct, verifiable evidence can you present that the phones in Qana were, in fact, working after the airstrike?
  6. How many dead Lebanese civilians do you believe would be too high a cost to pay to achieve Israel’s goal of halting Hezbollah’s attacks?
  7. Your colleague Kit has stated that she is in favor of the extermination of the entire population of Iran, if this would prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Would you favor the extermination of the entire population of Lebanon, if this would prevent Hezbollah from making any future attacks on Israel?

  1. Bill from Dover on August 3, 2006 at 10:54 pm

    The Parade of Dead Children and the professional Baby Handler. WTF?

    She should write zombie movies instead. This was one of the funniest posts I’ve read this year. Thanks Meat.

  2. Maj. M.T. Rational XXXIV on August 4, 2006 at 4:02 am

    Two kidnapped Israeli soldiers = 10,000 Lebanese civilians. We have a ways to go still.

  3. Bill from Dover on August 4, 2006 at 1:30 pm

    Speaking of soldiers, ever wonder why Israeli solders are kidnapped and lebanese are captured?

  4. PedDragon on August 6, 2006 at 7:27 am

    Dear Bill from Dover. I suggest you consult a dictionary.

    Ask yourself : Why were the two Israeli soldiers “taken?”

    Were there open hostilities at that time?

    Why were the “Lebanese” Hisbollahs taken?
    Were there open hostilities at that time?

    If someone comes to you, puts a gun to your head, takes you away and demands the return to vicious criminals for your release, have you been captured?

    Seek and Ye Shall Find.

  5. PedDragon on August 6, 2006 at 8:04 am

    I will give my own aswers to your questiona about Qana:

    1. Yes, unfortunately, Hezbollah and other cowardly Islamofascists hide behind woman and children. Where is that Geneva Convention thing when we talk about the actions of terrorists?

    2. According to MSM (driveby sources), they were fed the number of 58, but the International Red Cross says 26. Who knows?

    3. This issue has been dealt with in great detail. See Vital Perspective. At this point it is impossible to say other than to point out the facts that we know regarding the apparent staging.

    4. According to the International Red Cross, the number of dead…for starters. Once you go there, what can be trusted.

    5. There were phones, and radios. What evidence do you have that they weren’t working?

    6. There is only one justification for death in war, that these deaths will save many times their number in the future. By that standard, taking into consideration the propensity of Hezbollah and other fascist, woman-enslaving Islamic groups, unfurtunately we are not even close to that number yet.

    7. This is a foolish question. It is not even a remote possibility. Check your demographics. The vast majority of Lebonese are either Christians or Sunni. If they were able to truly speak freely, they would want Hezbollah out of thier country tomorrow.

    However, speaking purely in the hypothetical, if I was in charge of Israel if the choices were the complete destruction of Lebanon or the complete destruction of Israel, guess what?

    Now, I have a question for you:

    Considering the fact that fundamental Islam is involved in wars in the following areas (just to name a few): Palistine, Iraq, India, Kashmir, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Thiland, Chetchnea, Bosnia, Sudan and others, and the United States and Israel are not involved in the majority of these conflicts, what do you think should be done?

  6. TD on August 6, 2006 at 9:48 am

    Bill, the difference between “captured” and “kidnapped” I suppose would depend on which side of a given border the incident happened on. When Hezbollah crosses a border without first having been attacked, kills soldiers, then takes captives back across the border, that’s kidnapping. When Israel crosses a border in defense of an armed incursion and takes prisoners, that’s captured.

    I’m surprised you couldn’t figure this out on your own.

    TD

  7. kender on August 6, 2006 at 10:55 am

    So capt. not-so-rational….where do you get your figures of 10,000?

    And meatbrain? You lied. I haven’t seen Heidi say “muslim moron” anywhere.

    Why are you lying meathead?

    Why?

  8. kender on August 6, 2006 at 10:58 am

    And how, meathead, do you come up with the argument that those kids never had a chance in life anyway?

    Did I miss something Heidi wrote?

    Where did she say those kids never had a chance? Can you point out the specific place that Heidi said that meathead?

    Until you can I don’t see why we should continue to give any weight to your arguments.

  9. meatbrain on August 6, 2006 at 11:10 am

    “You lied. I haven’t seen Heidi say “muslim moron” anywhere.”

    That’s because you didn’t bother to look, Kender. Follow the link to Heidi’s own post, and use the Find function in your browser (in most browsers it is Ctrl-F) to search the page for the word ‘morons’:

    “So, no. I really don’t feel bad. I possibly feel a twinge of sadness for those poor kids, who lost their lives because all the adults around them were Muslim morons, and no one could be bothered to safeguard their lives – but those poor kids never really had a chance in life anyway. It’s shameful, really.”

    This paragraph immediately follows Heidi’s list of five reasons why she does not care about the dead civilians in Qana. Read for comprehension, little fool.

    “Where did she say those kids never had a chance? Can you point out the specific place that Heidi said that meathead?”

    Yes, Kender, and I just did. It’s in the same paragraph as her “Muslim morons” comment. See above for instructions on finding it, little fool.

    “Until you can I don’t see why we should continue to give any weight to your arguments.”

    You have just proven that you do not see anything that you do not want to see. Your deliberate ignorance and blatant dishonesty are a comment on your own arguments, little fool, and not on anything I have said.

  10. kender on August 6, 2006 at 11:46 am

    And you believe that these kids had a chance?

    DO you think hezbollah is a terrorist group or a legitimate part of the lebanese government?

  11. meatbrain on August 6, 2006 at 12:03 pm

    I believe all children deserve the chance to grow up and fulfill whatever their potential they may have. Unlike Heidi, I do not see Muslim children as expendable subhumans.

    I believe that Hezbollah is a terrorist group, and that Israel has every right to defend itself against the attacks. I fail to see how the current Israeli campaign of near-indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets accomplishes that goal.

    I believe — strike that, I know — that Kender MacGowan is a lying buffoon who lacks the simple decency to apologize for making blatantly false accusations against someone who dared to disagree with his worldview.

    You are an intellectual coward, Kender, just like Heidi and Kit. I do appreciate your willingness to provide still more proof of your cowardice. Come back any time and post more lies. I will be happy to point them out to you.

  12. kender on August 6, 2006 at 12:25 pm

    I am so sorry I missed heidi’s words meathead and accused you of lying….please accept my deepest and most sincere apology for that mistake your assholiness.

    As for Israel attacking “civilian” targets, why do you not seem to grasp the concept that hezbollah is stockpiling weapons with civilians and launching attacks FROM “civilian” areas?

    Or that Iran is supplying them with missiles and money?

    How can you be so blind to NOT see these things?

    Might it be that you hate our country so much that you refuse to see the actions of this group of terrorists?

    How do you propose we make peace with radical islamists and get them to stop attacking Israel, cease their suicide bombing of children in buses and not bomb trains and buses in western countries?

    Do you think that peace can be had with a large group of people that have sworn the destruction of Israel and the west and have vowed to fight to the death?

    If it can be had, how?

    If it cannot be had what then?

    Come on meathead…...let’s hear your solutions?

    Or are you like the DNC and don’t actually have any solutions, just complaints.

  13. ric ottaiano on August 6, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    meat…brain(?): i’m late to this party but I’m curious to know on what basis, other than there have been civilian casualties, do you assert that Israel is conducting “near-indiscriminate” bombings? your use of that term suggests that there are no legitimate military targets at the business end of the Israeli missiles. Is that what you are saying or is it something else?

    Of course, all children should have the chance to grow up and fulfill their potential…I have a young daughter and certainly and wholeheartedly believe that.

    That’s why I don’t knowingly place her in or near harm’s way and would move her from any locale that placed her life or health in jeopardy. Like being near missle launchers, etc during wartime. If I did that and she was hurt or killed, I couldn’t say with any degree of intellectual honesty that is WASN’T mostly or entirely my fault.

    Believe me when I say I am no intellectual coward. Do your due diligence on it and then show your intellectual chops by calling in to my show tonight (8-9 pm Pacific) and throwdown boy! if you choose not to…I and everyone else will understand…

    http://www.wideawakesradio.com

  14. meatbrain on August 6, 2006 at 4:50 pm

    “I am so sorry I missed heidi’s words meathead and accused you of lying… please accept my deepest and most sincere apology for that mistake your assholiness.”

    There is nothing the least bit sincere about you, Kender. The only thing you are sorry for is that you got caught in your lie.

    “As for Israel attacking “civilian” targets, why do you not seem to grasp the concept that hezbollah is stockpiling weapons with civilians and launching attacks FROM “civilian” areas?”

    I am quite aware of Hezbollah’s tactics, and I agree that it is despicable for terrorists to use civilians as human shields. The fact remains, however, that Israel has bombed civilian targets in Labanon without any indication that said targets were being used by Hezbollah. Israel has admitted that it had no information indicating that any rockets were launched from the building in Qana where at least 26 Lebanese civilians were killed by an Israeli airstrike:

    It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

    The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

    The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

    “Might it be that you hate our country so much that you refuse to see the actions of this group of terrorists?”

    Your accusation that I “refuse to see the actions of this group of terrorists” is without factual basis, as is usual for your accusations. It is one of the most common tactics of your kind to accuse those who dare to disagree with you of “hating America”. It is quite possible to disagree with the tactics of one of America’s allies, and yet not hate America. You are again being intellectually dishonest by refusing to account for this fact.

    “How do you propose we make peace with radical islamists and get them to stop attacking Israel, cease their suicide bombing of children in buses and not bomb trains and buses in western countries?

    Do you think that peace can be had with a large group of people that have sworn the destruction of Israel and the west and have vowed to fight to the death?

    If it can be had, how?

    If it cannot be had what then?

    Come on meathead…...let’s hear your solutions?”

    I have not claimed to have any solutions. It is not necessary that I have a solution for every problem I see fit to comment on. I know of no one who does.

  15. meatbrain on August 6, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    “i’m late to this party but I’m curious to know on what basis, other than there have been civilian casualties, do you assert that Israel is conducting “near-indiscriminate” bombings? your use of that term suggests that there are no legitimate military targets at the business end of the Israeli missiles. Is that what you are saying or is it something else?”

    I have not claimed that “there are no legitimate military targets at the business end of the Israeli missiles”. But the Israelis themselves admit that this has been the case in some instances. See above.

  16. ric ottaiano on August 6, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    I have not claimed that “there are no legitimate military targets at the business end of the Israeli missiles”. But the Israelis themselves admit that this has been the case in some instances.

    understood…but what is your point then…? are you saying that the Israelis INTENTIONALLY targeted a dwelling knowing that it had no military use but only housed civilians?

    also, if a site is the location from where Hizbollah is firing rockets into Israel but this site is in the middle of anotherwise civilian area…is your position that Israel should not nevertheless try to take that launch site out? if it is, then you’re saying that Israel should be more concerned over the death of Lebanese civilians that Israeli civilians, and if it’s not, then what the heck point are you trying to make? you still haven’t answered my original question, namely, from your perspective are the Israeli missile attacks INTENDED to strike at military targets?

  17. ric ottaiano on August 6, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    ...also, will you be calling in this evening between 8-9 pm (pacific) so we may civilly carry on this conversation?

    http://www.wideawakesradio.com

  18. meatbrain on August 6, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    “you still haven’t answered my original question, namely, from your perspective are the Israeli missile attacks INTENDED to strike at military targets?”

    Some are. But the mass destruction of civilian infrastructure in Lebanon — highways, factories, hospitals — makes it difficult to conclude that Israel is not also deliberately destroying civilian targets.

    “will you be calling in this evening”

    No. I have explained previously that I consider an online medium, such as a blog or other discussion forum, to be superior to radio for this sort of discussion. Anything you wish to discuss with me can be discussed here.

  19. ric ottaiano on August 6, 2006 at 10:11 pm

    you are missing my point (intentionally?)...my question is “do you think Israel is deliberately targeting Israeli civilians?” I’m not asking about “infrastructure” since there are many military uses during wartime for otherwise civilian infrasturcture such as bridges, etc…if Hezbollah is being resupplied over a “civilian” bridge, are you saying that Israel should not target it because it will create a hardship for civilians?

  20. kender on August 6, 2006 at 11:55 pm

    Meathead, you are a coward. I have informed Ric that you are a coward, and wouldn’t call.

    I knew I should have bet him regarding the outcome of an offer for you to call in and state your case.

    BTW, I have the solution…..let Israel off of their leash, fuck world opinion and destroy hezbollah, hamas and ant other terrorist SOB that pops its head up (and yes I am dehumanizing them because they have done nothing to prove they deserve the mantle of “human.”)

    While I have your ear, reports are stating that 25% of civilians left southern lebanon. Should we then presume tht the 75% of “civilians” that have voluntarily stayed, knowing that Israel was on the warpath, are actually affiliated with Hexbollah and just awaiting their orders?

  21. meatbrain on August 7, 2006 at 5:11 pm

    “my question is “do you think Israel is deliberately targeting Israeli civilians?”“

    You would, I presume, mean to say “do you think Israel is deliberately targeting Lebanese civilians?”.

    Israel is deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure in Lebanon. As noted above, the Israeli miltary admits that its airstrike in Qana was not predicated on information that any rockets were being fired from that location at that time. Israel also admits that it does not know if civilians are present when it targets civilian infrastructure… in fact, it knows that in some cases civilians are indeed present in the midst of battle:

    The IAF does not have a way to verify whether villages have been vacated, or whether civilians remain hidden in bomb-shelters in locations otherwise believed to have been vacated, the sources said.

    Paratroopers who fought in Bint Jbail last week said they noticed civilians hiding in the rubble while the fierce battle with Hezbollah militants was taking place.

    Does this equate to deliberately targeting civilians? I will not claim to read the minds of the Israeli military leaders responsible for these actions, but I will note that the civilians are just as dead whether they were deliberately targeted or not.

    Consider this: if any other nation — say, Portugal, or Argentina, or North Korea — were undertaking to defend itself with airstrikes against civilian targets to the degree that Israel has done these past weeks, would anyone leap to excuse that nation’s actions with the same zeal that Israel has been excused in the world press?

  22. meatbrain on August 7, 2006 at 5:32 pm

    “Meathead, you are a coward.”

    Oh boo hoo. The same Kender MacGowan who just yesterday sought to discredit me with a completely false accusation is accusing me of cowardice. The same Kender MacGowan who bravely edited my comments at TheWideAwakes.org so that he could again attempt to discredit me by way of false accusations is accusing me of cowardice. The same Kender MacGowan who has bravely avoided arresting a single illegal alien in the four months since declaring his dedication to the cause of protecting America’s borders is accusing me of cowardice. Oh boo hoo.

    “I have the solution…..let Israel off of their leash…”

    What leash?

    “Should we then presume tht the 75% of “civilians” that have voluntarily stayed, knowing that Israel was on the warpath, are actually affiliated with Hexbollah and just awaiting their orders?”

    No, because there are many reasons why civilians may not be able to leave a war zone. But no one really expects you to understand the realities of war, Kender. No concept that involves anything more complicated than ‘yes’ or ‘no’, ‘black’ or ‘white’, ‘us’ or ‘them’ seems to be within your grasp. It seems quite clear that you are the living embodiment of the ‘bit’ from the classic SF movie, Tron...