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	<title>Comments on: Jay the ignorant</title>
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	<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant</link>
	<description>It's meat! And it thinks!</description>
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		<title>By: Bill from Dover</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant/comment-page-1#comment-1056</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill from Dover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.net/?p=290#comment-1056</guid>
		<description>I stand corrected (it really ain&#039;t that hard to say). I got him confused with Kender in LA from this exchange with BV:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;But in the spirit of your little cum-buddy (to use your style of writing) you didn&#039;t post where I am.....what&#039;s wrong felcher ... Yellow?&quot;

Gee, kender, that&#039;s a tough one. Has &quot;Outside L.A.&quot; in his Blogger profile, rants about the L.A. scene a lot, has an IP address that resolves to L.A....lemme guess, San Francisco? The Castro portion specifically?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My bad. These guys all write the same to me.

Besides, I was wondering where the desert was in Cleveland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stand corrected (it really ain&#8217;t that hard to say). I got him confused with Kender in LA from this exchange with BV:</p>
<p>
<blockquote>
&#8220;But in the spirit of your little cum-buddy (to use your style of writing) you didn&#8217;t post where I am&#8230;..what&#8217;s wrong felcher &#8230; Yellow?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Gee, kender, that&#8217;s a tough one. Has &#8220;Outside L.A.&#8221; in his Blogger profile, rants about the L.A. scene a lot, has an IP address that resolves to L.A&#8230;.lemme guess, San Francisco? The Castro portion specifically?
</p>
<p>My bad. These guys all write the same to me.</p>
<p>Besides, I was wondering where the desert was in Cleveland.</p>
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		<title>By: meatbrain</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant/comment-page-1#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>meatbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.net/?p=290#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s Gribbit, not Jay, who mistakenly believes that beating someone up will magically transform his lies into truths; and I believe that Gribbit may in fact live in Cleveland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s Gribbit, not Jay, who mistakenly believes that beating someone up will magically transform his lies into truths; and I believe that Gribbit may in fact live in Cleveland.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill from Dover</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant/comment-page-1#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill from Dover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.net/?p=290#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>BTW - have Jay keep and show a copy of his airplane ticket to Cleveland... just to prove that he is not a liar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; have Jay keep and show a copy of his airplane ticket to Cleveland&#8230; just to prove that he is not a liar.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill from Dover</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant/comment-page-1#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill from Dover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.net/?p=290#comment-1052</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Description of record: Detainee was found unresponsive restrained in his cell.
snip
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If I remember correctly, this was the taxi cab driver who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was basically pulled off the street for nothing. He and his passenger were strung up by chains and the soldiers would take turns beating his legs with bats as they walked by.  Sounds like a lot of fun to me. I think the passenger bought the farm also. Not sure whether anybody was convicted or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote>Description of record: Detainee was found unresponsive restrained in his cell.<br />
snip
</p></blockquote>
<p>If I remember correctly, this was the taxi cab driver who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was basically pulled off the street for nothing. He and his passenger were strung up by chains and the soldiers would take turns beating his legs with bats as they walked by.  Sounds like a lot of fun to me. I think the passenger bought the farm also. Not sure whether anybody was convicted or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Kraft</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.net/2006/06/17/jay-the-ignorant/comment-page-1#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Kraft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.net/?p=290#comment-1050</guid>
		<description>It wasn&#039;t just about detainees who had to deal with bread and water. The report specifically cites one prisoner who died during interogation, apparently due to using hypothermia techniques on him.

In the report, Brig. Gen. Formica said that he did not investigate the underlying incidents that led to the investigation, or check the existing documentation for completeness or accuracy, relying instead on the military&#039;s own previous findings on the incidents. Those previous findings, unfortunately, appear to have been from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/search/searchdetail.php?r=1840&amp;q=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;investigations which were stonewalled&lt;/a&gt;, where members of the Special Forces used fake names and mysteriously &quot;lost&quot; the great majority of their files, and in which the Criminal Investigations (CID) officer on site stated that he was &quot;unable to thoroughly investigate suspects and witnesses because of their involvement in the Special Access Program and/or the security classification of the unit they were assigned to during the offense.&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Special Access Program was specifically approved by Rumsfeld&lt;/a&gt; and his assistants in the Pentagon.

Amongst the allegations not investigated further are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DOD000377.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;, in which a US soldier over at Abu Ghraib swore an oath indicating that a young Iraqi claimed to have been sexually and physically abused and sodomized while imprisoned by US Special Forces.

The US soldier swore an oath indicating that the Iraqi in question &quot;could not sit and was bleeding from the rectum&quot;. This claim of sexual assault while under Special Forces imprisonment appears to have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://insomnia.livejournal.com/680065.html?thread=4923265#t4923265&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;backed up by numerous other sworn statements from US soldiers&lt;/a&gt;.

According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DOD000379.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the sworn statement of one soldier&lt;/a&gt;:
&quot;In my opinion, (prisoner&#039;s name redacted) came in emotionally and physically abused. (Prisoner) said, I don&#039;t remember in exact words, &quot;they have taken everything from me.&quot;

I don&#039;t know the name of their capturing unit. All I know is they came from the palace. . . I don&#039;t know if they got a rectal investigation. . . When SF (Special Forces troops, such as Task Force 626) brought detainees in . . . you could see that they were facially abused. I don&#039;t know which SF unit. I saw detainees with bruises, black eyes, beaten, physical abuse. If we get them like that, we&#039;ll stop and take them to the aid station or MPs, that way we&#039;re cleared of it. We don&#039;t want it said that it happened here. . .&quot; 

Over the course of my time here, I&#039;ve seen maybe ten detainees come in here physically abused, downright beaten and tortured, and I&#039;ve easily screened hundreds of detainees. The only trend associated with that abuse would be SF (Special Forces) detainees. One of the first questions I&#039;d ask was &quot;why were you detained&quot; and if they would mention (redacted) it was usually associated with extortion, and &quot;he beat me&quot;. Those were the two trends right there.&quot;

So basically, these are very serious allegations with numerous sworn statements backing them up. It should be of real concern that the US&#039; best troops would act in such a manner, with such impunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t just about detainees who had to deal with bread and water. The report specifically cites one prisoner who died during interogation, apparently due to using hypothermia techniques on him.</p>
<p>In the report, Brig. Gen. Formica said that he did not investigate the underlying incidents that led to the investigation, or check the existing documentation for completeness or accuracy, relying instead on the military&#8217;s own previous findings on the incidents. Those previous findings, unfortunately, appear to have been from <a href="http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/search/searchdetail.php?r=1840&#038;q=" >investigations which were stonewalled</a>, where members of the Special Forces used fake names and mysteriously &#8220;lost&#8221; the great majority of their files, and in which the Criminal Investigations (CID) officer on site stated that he was &#8220;unable to thoroughly investigate suspects and witnesses because of their involvement in the Special Access Program and/or the security classification of the unit they were assigned to during the offense.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact" >The Special Access Program was specifically approved by Rumsfeld</a> and his assistants in the Pentagon.</p>
<p>Amongst the allegations not investigated further are <a href="http://www.aclu.org/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DOD000377.pdf" >this one</a>, in which a US soldier over at Abu Ghraib swore an oath indicating that a young Iraqi claimed to have been sexually and physically abused and sodomized while imprisoned by US Special Forces.</p>
<p>The US soldier swore an oath indicating that the Iraqi in question &#8220;could not sit and was bleeding from the rectum&#8221;. This claim of sexual assault while under Special Forces imprisonment appears to have been <a href="http://insomnia.livejournal.com/680065.html?thread=4923265#t4923265" >backed up by numerous other sworn statements from US soldiers</a>.</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.aclu.org/projects/foiasearch/pdf/DOD000379.pdf" >the sworn statement of one soldier</a>:<br />
&#8220;In my opinion, (prisoner&#8217;s name redacted) came in emotionally and physically abused. (Prisoner) said, I don&#8217;t remember in exact words, &#8220;they have taken everything from me.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the name of their capturing unit. All I know is they came from the palace. . . I don&#8217;t know if they got a rectal investigation. . . When SF (Special Forces troops, such as Task Force 626) brought detainees in . . . you could see that they were facially abused. I don&#8217;t know which SF unit. I saw detainees with bruises, black eyes, beaten, physical abuse. If we get them like that, we&#8217;ll stop and take them to the aid station or MPs, that way we&#8217;re cleared of it. We don&#8217;t want it said that it happened here. . .&#8221; </p>
<p>Over the course of my time here, I&#8217;ve seen maybe ten detainees come in here physically abused, downright beaten and tortured, and I&#8217;ve easily screened hundreds of detainees. The only trend associated with that abuse would be SF (Special Forces) detainees. One of the first questions I&#8217;d ask was &#8220;why were you detained&#8221; and if they would mention (redacted) it was usually associated with extortion, and &#8220;he beat me&#8221;. Those were the two trends right there.&#8221;</p>
<p>So basically, these are very serious allegations with numerous sworn statements backing them up. It should be of real concern that the US&#8217; best troops would act in such a manner, with such impunity.</p>
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