Sheikh Ismail Nawahda, preaching in Jerusalem, directing all followers of Islam around the world:
”...unite all the Moslems in the world against the infidels…[to] restore the Moslem dictatorship using a system of small groups around the world”
How much more clear does that need to be? People who are of the religion of Islam are actively working to overthrow the American government. If you are of the Islam religion and are not, you are disobeying your own leaders. Either way, Islam is not about freedom of religion, it’s about treason.
Islam in America should be declared what it is: a treasonous organization that exists to overthrow the government. You have a right to freedom of religion, but you do not have the right to organize with the sole purpose of destroying the government.
News flash, Ogre: Christianity isn’t about ‘freedom of religion’ either. It’s about enforcing a specific set of beliefs. That’s what all religion is, at the core. Believe in a given credo, or suffer the consequences. Much of what passes for ‘religion’ throughout history has been bitterly oppposed to freedom.
Ogre doesn’t tell us how he arrived at the conclusion that Sheikh Ismail Nawahda is necessarily a “leader” in Islam. How does he arrive at the conclusion that all Muslims follow the same leaders? Ogre doesn’t say.
Nor can he explain how an organization is “declared treasonous”. And perhaps most importantly, he doesn’t explain how branding all American Muslims as traitors will in any way assist in the fight against terrorism.
No, this isn’t about ‘winning the war on terror’ for Ogre and his fellow Christian soldiers. It’s about spreading hatred and bigotry. Terrorism is a difficult problem that will be with us for a long time. I guarantee you it won’t be solved by those who employ simple-minded notions that lump all Muslims into the same pigeonhole.
Ogre’s little tantrum is a textbook example of religious hatred and intellectual laziness at its worst. It’s about as far from the American ideals of religious freedom and tolerance as one can get.
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February 27th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
Ogre
Wow. I wonder if it takes effort on your part to twist things so far out of shape, or if it comes naturally. Once again, you completely missed the point of the post to create something from nothing! I didn’t mention a single thing about Christians in that post—not one word. I was talking about how Islam, the religion, is specifically trying to destroy America.
But then, I”m guessing you already knew that and just posted this rant to illustrate how much you hate me.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
meatbrain
Here’s the problem, Ogre: Religions, as such, don’t do anything. People interpret the writings of a religion, and sometimes they act on those interpretations. A religion, or any other sort of philosophy, is impotent to effect change in the real world without someone taking action based on their own interpretation.
Any religion can be interpreted in a way that supports hateful or aggressive actions on the part of the individual doing the interpreting. Examples abound from the history of the world’s major religions, Christianity included. The claim that Islam is in some way unique in this respect is ludicrous on its face.
There are a great many Muslim clerics and scholars, not to mention ordinary Muslims in all countries, who abhor violence and decry the terrorism that hides behind the Islamic faith. They are there — you have only to look for them.
Of course, it’s so much less work to find the words of a fanatic and pretend that he speaks for all Muslims everywhere… isn’t it?
February 27th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Ogre
Well, to be more accurate, it’s not actually PEOPLE who do things, it’s their hands. So wouldn’t it be more accurate, using your interpretations of reality, to say that there are examples throughout history of HANDS that are doing hateful and agressive actions?
February 27th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
meatbrain
To be very accurate, you’re afraid to discuss the real questions surrounding terrorism and Islam, preferring to play the fool and run away from serious debate. You don’t have to defend your arguments that way.
I understand your kind all too well, Ogre.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Ogre
Oh, but then you’re the liar, because the discussion is not about “questions,” but since questions are made of words and words are made of letters, don’t you mean that you’re afraid of the letters that are the tools of serious debate? Those same letters that are manipulated by fingers on the hands of the powerful and powerless people?
February 27th, 2006 at 6:16 pm
meatbrain
Okay, let’s return to what the discussion is about: Your twisted need to spread hatred against Muslims.
Let’s assume for the moment that you get your wish: Every Muslim in America is declared a traitor. No trials are held, no evidence is presented against any individual Muslim. Simply being a member of an Islamic congregation is enough to convict a person of treason. (Note that this procedure would be in direct contravention of Article Three, Section Three of the US Constitution, but we’ll ignore that uncomfortable fact for now. We both know that you are unconcerned with the rule of law.)
What penalties will be levied against these ‘traitors’, Ogre? There are three possibilities I can think of:
These are hard questions, Ogre. Are you capable of discussing them?
February 27th, 2006 at 6:19 pm
Ogre
If they were coherent, indeed, I could. But once again you illustrate that incredible ability to discern my thoughts and even the very meaning behind those thoughts inside my mind without me verbalizing them at all! That’s great! You really should join a circus or something with that ability to not just read minds, but read what the owner of that mind doesn’t even know is there!
Please, do tell me what else I am thinking, for clearly, based on your statements, not only do I not know, but if I do attempt to verbalize (in the written word) them, I’m not even capable of doing that right! Goodness, how did I even type this, because it’s clearly NOT what I intended to type!
February 27th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
meatbrain
The questions are perfectly coherent, Ogre. You’re simply afraid to discuss the logical consequences of your proposal.
Strangely, no one is surprised to find that a bigot, when confronted, runs away.
February 27th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Ogre
Oh yes, I forgot to mention that. I’m absolutely terrified of all your words. They have so many letters, apparently, directly by you, a person with hands. And they make me run in fear—or so you say. And you must be right because you say so. I mean, after all, if someone had a thought other than what was deemed an “acceptable” thought, you’d just have to correct their thoughts, as you have done so well for me. Now, what that my thought, or was that your thought impressed upon me so it would meet with your version of reality?
February 27th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
meatbrain
And so you prove — by continuing to avoid the discussion of your own proposal.
What are the practical consequences of declaring every Muslim in America a ‘traitor’, Ogre? What do you propose we do with several million instant ‘traitors’?
And still you will run away from these simple, direct questions…
February 27th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
kender
To answer your nonsensical questions about what to do with the muslims, give them three days to tie up their affairs and send ‘em packing, if they aren’t citizens. If they are citizens, watch them closely. Monitor the mosques. If a Christian church were advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government I would say watch them also.
It is a sign of our effectiveness, I think, that you have undertaken a seemingly single handed crusade against the Wide Awakes, and I wonder if perhaps you aren’t one of our former members that have parted ways with us in the past…
No matter either way. It is very entertaining to watch Ogre get your knickers in a twist.
February 27th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
meatbrain
I see. What does “tie up their affairs” mean? Are they to sell all their properties, including real estate, in three says’ time? What do you propose to do about families in which some Muslim members are citizens, and some are not? Do you deport children?
Excuse me… are you serious? Are you actually proposing that millions of these convicted ‘criminals’ will be allowed to roam freely in the US?
Let’s assume, against all logic, that you are proposing exactly that. From which law enforcement agencies will you draw the manpower required to keep these millions of people under surveillance? Who will analyze the data gathered by the watchers?
There are consequences to every action, Kender. How fully have you thought out the consequences of declaring millions of people as instant ‘traitors’?
I agree. Do you know of any Muslim mosques in this country that have, in fact, advocated the overthrow of the US government? (You do know, of course, that if you name a specific mosque, you’ll be challenged to provide specific evidence.)
February 27th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
Meatless
Meathead, I’m confused, but then I’m conservative so that would be normal according to you. Lets see, Ogre says that if a group (religious or otherwise) advocates the overthrow or supplanting of the US form of government (representative democracy aka a republic) and they are US citizens then they are treasonous. Well, that is the law isn’t it? You seem to turn that around though as though Ogre said that he was a religious bigot. Ogre said he would feel the same if a Christian group wanted to do the same as the Islamic group. What is it that you don’t understand Meathead?
Oh, wait, you call yourself “Meat”brain. Well brain tissue is far more lipids than “meat” (which is really striated and/or smooth muscle) so maybe Fathead might be more appropriate.
At any rate, you do meander on don’t you? Wonder when you will come to a point and really challenge what a conservative says?
February 27th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
kender
“Just three miles from the site of the World Trade Center, the government of Saudi Arabia is distributing hate materials expounding an extremist Wahhabi ideology, according to a new report by the Center for Religious Freedom….”
this report comes from http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004862.php
The wahhabi idealogy is the antithesis of Freedom and all that America stands for, but I don’t expect a contrary nonthinking meatheaded cretin such as yourself to understand that. I never said anything, BTW, about declaring muslims traitors by default of adherence to islam, but certainly the big, bad government could use all that “illegal” wiretapping to keep tabs on people. Do you think that you email isn’t being monitored?
You have taken on, seemingly as a hobby, a purported GOP front group, and unless you are in the employ of the DNC, Code Pink or George Soros, or some other leftist group, what else can I call your obsession with TWA but a hobby? Are you in the employ of a leftist group, meathead? This hobby of yours would necessarrily include you in any monitoring by the administration of individuals, entities or groups deemed antithetical to their goals, so fucking with a purported GOP front group would stick you right up in teh front of the queue for “illegal” wiretapping, don’t ya think?
As for deporting children, the anchor baby clause is a myth, and anchor babies should be declared citizens of the country that their birth mother is from and deported immediately.
February 27th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
meatbrain
I am aware of laws, including the aforementioned section of the US Constitution, that codify under what circumstances an individual can be convicted of treason. (Note that, as I said earlier, Ogre’s proposal is not consistent with the law.)
I am unaware of any law that provides for all members of a group to be convicted of treason without evidence of treasonous acts being brought against them individually. If you are aware of such a law, I would welcome a specific citation.
No, I don’t “seem to”. I come right out and say it. Ogre’s accusation is based not on any evidence that Muslims as a whole are guilty of treasonous acts against the US. His accusation is based solely on bigotry against adherents of a specific religion.
That’s an interesting turn of phrase.. “the Islamic group”. It’s so much easier to lump all members of a hated group into one undifferentiated whole. It allows you to avoid the difficult and tiem-consuming task of understanding that there are many aspects to any given person’s existence: that no one is just a Muslim, just a Catholic, just a Republican, just a smoker… How much easier it is to slap a label on them, preferably one for which you already have a handy stereotype, and get on with the business of blaming them for whatever you need to blame someone for!
Tell me something… would it make sense, in a similar context, to lump every Christian in the world together as “the Christian group”, and assert that they all hold a specific viewpoint about something?
February 27th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
Gribbit
Can anyone tell me why we are wasting time on this POS? Meatbrain – how appropriate.
February 27th, 2006 at 8:19 pm
meatbrain
In fact, I do… just as I understand that you choose to employ ad hominem attacks in lieu of fact-based arguments.
What proportion of American Muslims belong to the Wahhabi sect, Kender? What are the major differences between Wahhabism and, say, Qutbism?
Ogre, however, did just that. It is his proposal we are discussing here.
Do you agree with Ogre that all Muslims are ipso facto traitors, and can be declared as such without trial?
Are the children born to legal immigrants who do not hold citizenship considered ‘anchor babies’? If so, what existing statute defines this determination?
Is it presently legal to declare such babies citizens of another country and deport them? If so, what existing statute defines the procedure for doing so?
February 27th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Ogre
Oh wait! We’re discussing my post? When did that start? Certainly the only thing the original post here had to do with my post was the link back to it. I thought we were discussing the thoughts and reasonings inside my mind that only Meatbrain was attuned to.
If we want to talk about my post, Meatbrain, you need to explain why your version of reality says that any group that gathers with the sole purpose of overthrowing the US Government is permitted (as long as they’re not Christian) to meet, despite the once-used, but long discarded document that you don’t hold so dear, the US Constitution, of which you are clearly a scholar of—and I’m sure quite privy to the thoughts and purposes of the individual signers and drafters of that lofty document, in spite of the actual words penned thereupon.
February 27th, 2006 at 9:01 pm
meatbrain
With this sentence: “Ogre’s back, with a particularly ugly and ignorant example of using the ‘war on terror’ as a cover for the worst kind of religious bigotry.” See above.
I have, of course, made no such claim. You might want to try sticking to the facts. You may even be able to restore your credibility by so doing.
Actually, the Constitution is still the basis of US law. What do the actual words penned thereupon tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason?
February 27th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Ogre
Wow. You’re just moving too fast for my tiny little brain. Now there’s facts that are going to be introduced into this discussion? Please help me and describe the only facts that you will accept so I know which ones I can use that will penetrate the utter insanity that is your world—for certainly if I introduce any facts that are not approved by you, they will be rejected. Feel free to use any facts that are hidden in my brain that I do not know are there but you do.
February 27th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
meatbrain
Ask a bigot a direct question, watch him run away from it.
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre?
February 27th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
Ogre
Oops there it went. So much for talking about my post. Hey look! I was right! You’re the one who wants to convict people, not me!
February 27th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
kender
I would rather say things about you than try to understand the warped world view you seem to hold. It is much easier to get your spittle flinging around the room, and much more entertaining I might add, than it is to try to counter the twisted freedom hating zealotry that possesses your mind and drives you to spend countless hours crying for attention. Time that would probably be better spent on your end drying out yesterdays bib so that tomorrow you have a dry one to wear….we knwo how cranky you get when your bib is so damp first thing in the morning.
February 27th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
kender
Does that bother you, hippy?
February 27th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
meatbrain
Ask a bigot a direct question, watch him run away from it — again and again.
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre?
February 27th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
meatbrain
Ask a bigot direct questions, watch him run away from them — again and again.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Ogre
Let me try, let me try!
Here, let’s talk about Meatbrain’s post:
Meatbrain, Where in the US Constitution does it say that all Christians, regardless of skin color, are to be crucified and burned at the stake, only if they weigh the same as a duck?
February 27th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
meatbrain
Nowhere, of course. Nor have I made any such claim.
I’m asking you a direct question about your proposal that all Muslims be declared guilty of treason, without a trail. And you are again going to run away from that question:
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre?
Bigots always turn tail and run when directly challenged.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
kender
Since I don’t go to mosques, and since our government rightfully doesn’t expose anything they MAY learn IF they were watching any mosques, which I am stating unequivically for the record that I don’t know whether they are or not, indeed, surveilling any mosques, I of course don’t know for certain which mosques may be doing just that. However, you do not know that they are NOT advocating the overthrow of the US government, and with the recent arrests of an “ice cream vendor” and his son for terrorist connections and activity, which is more likely? Better question would probably be, “Are you willing to take a chance that the mosques AREN’T preaching jihad in New York?
What proportion of American Muslims belong to the Wahhabi sect, Kender? What are the major differences between Wahhabism and, say, Qutbism?
This question is completely without merit as to how many are practicing what path. The sauds, notorious wahhabists, are bankrolling islamic schools and endowing islamic chairs at major universities. More than enough evidence is out there showing that wahhabism is dangerous. Would YOU, meathead, like to live under that system? I wouldn’t, and I won’t. It sounds like you might.
ON that note, can you give this poor ignorant boy the lessons in teh difference between wahhabism and qutbism? (that last question is completely dependent upon whether or not you think I give half a rats ass about the differences between one sect of islam and another….at this point in time the only sect I am going to cheer on is teh sect that tells them hari kari is the only acceptable form of worship)
I haven’t read Ogre’s post yet, so I don’t know if what he said is what you claim. I’d be willing to bet when I do read it that my chance of agreeing with Ogre is much higher, even if I don’t agree with him, than agreeing with you, even if I agree with you.
for a good primer on anchor babies, read this: http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/anchor_babies.html
I am not going to do your research for you.
Is it presently legal to declare such babies citizens of another country and deport them? If so, what existing statute defines the procedure for doing so?
See above. The short answer to the qesutions are “No” and The 14th Amednment.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
kender
February 27th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
kender
February 27th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
kender
February 27th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
meatbrain
Are you suggesting that the basis of US jurisprudence be changed from “innocent until proven guilty” to “guilty until proven innocent”?
Do I understand that you are now proposing that millions of people be convicted of a crime, en masse, on the basis of what you consider ‘more likely’ —rather than on the basis of acts they can be proven to have carried out?
I seriously doubt you knew that Qutbism existed before I mentioned it.
The point is quite simple: Despite the claims of netbigots like Ogre, Islam is not a monolithic set of beliefs, all of its adherents marching in lockstep to the cries of fanatical clerics. Like Christianity, it is comprised of many sects, each with its own specific beliefs and philosophy.
You prefer, of course, to remain ignorant of this fact (you just admitted as much). It makes it so much easier to blindly hate all Muslims.
It seems you will be stymied, then, in your hopes to see the ethnic cleansing of the United States. You have my condolences.
You haven’t yet demonstrated that there is any legal basis for convicting an individual of treason based solely on his religious affiliation.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
meatbrain
The United States has tried that before. It cannot be considered one of this nation’s finer moments.
February 28th, 2006 at 7:17 am
Ogre
Oh, but Meatbrain, you clearly meant to type that all Christians must be burned at the stake, according to the Constitution. That’s the part that you left out because you knew that it would derail your entire argument and damage your credibility.
Why are you running away? You clear and vicious hatred of all things Chrisitan and total disregard for all manner of the rule of law is obvious.
Why do you have such a blatant hatred of hands? You have not addressed that idea—you lied by not posting that the US Constitution was written by people and not by hands. Why do you continue to lie and run away? Clearly because you know that what you are saying is wrong and you are simply afraid of the truth.
February 28th, 2006 at 7:48 am
meatbrain
Bigots always turn tail and run when directly challenged:
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre?
February 28th, 2006 at 10:02 am
Ogre
Yes, and that’s why you’re running.
Why do you want to convict so many people of treason? Why can’t you admit that’s what you’re really saying—that you only want Christians to be convicted of treason under the US Constitution?
February 28th, 2006 at 10:50 am
meatbrain
I’ve not said nor implied that, Ogre. If you are going to accuse me of holding a specific viewpoint, you must first provide something resembling evidence for your claim. Fact-based discussions are more productive that those based purely on fantasy.
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre? (This will be the sixth time you’ve evaded this question.)
February 28th, 2006 at 11:50 am
Ogre
Wait, I didn’t know the rules had changed. You’re continuing the ask a question that can be answered by a 10-year old with the ability to use the internet (and yet don’t seem to know the answer), that has nothing to do with anything facts or anything that I’ve talked about.
You started this discussion by intentionally misinterpreting my words, so I’m just trying to keep up! Heck, you won’t even tell me what facts that are accepted by you to be used in an argument! You’ve already made it clear that you will only allow facts that come from your mind, not those in the real world, so I’m just trying to find out what the rule are. Clearly they change from post-to-post, which makes this even more entertaining.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
meatbrain
But you aren’t able to answer that question, or are unwilling to do so. Why?
False. You have proposed that an entire religious community be convicted of a crime. We are discussing whether your proposal is constitutional or not.
Cite the specific statement that I made, that you consider a ‘misinterpretation’ of your proposal. If you cannot cite any specific statement that I made, then your complaint is invalid.
I am challenging you to discuss real-world facts. So far, you are afraid to take up that challenge. Why?
What do the actual words of the US Constitution tell us is required in order to convict a citizen of treason, Ogre? (This will be the seventh time you’ve evaded this question.)
February 28th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
meatbrain
Your speculation regarding “the muslims” (there’s that lump-them-all-into-one-monolithic-whole fallacy again) motivation for jihad is simplistic, but ultimately irrelevant to this discussion.
You asked if we can be certain that Muslim congregations are not plotting the overthrow of the US government. Of course, we cannot be, any more than we can be certain that a white Christian veteran somewhere in this country is not at this moment plotting to destroy a Federal office building with a truck bomb. We do know that that can happen, though I see no one calling for every white Christian veteran to be put under surveillance for what he might do.
Are you in favor of changing the basis of US jurisprudence from “innocent until proven guilty” to “guilty until proven innocent”, Kender? Your comments so far seem to suggest that you are, but it would make for a more productive discussion if you would clarify this point.
And you still have not explained which US statute provides for all members of a group to be convicted of treason without any evidence of treasonous acts being brought against them individually.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
kender
Answer THAT one!!!!
February 28th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
meatbrain
You are clearly unwilling to engage in a serious discussion of the questions raised by Ogre’s proposal, Kender.
I suspected as much from the outset, but I do thank you for confirming that initial impression.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Ogre
I haven’t answered your question for a 10-year old because I’m waiting for you to provide me with the answer. You see, last time when I presented an answer to a question, you told me that my mind had the wrong answer. You told me that my thoughts and opinions were invalidated by your mind-induced facts.
For example—I’ve never proposed anyone be conivcted of any crimes—not once! Yet you continue to focus on that one non-existant fact that you invented.
So again I ask—what facts are in my mind that you can read? Please tell me which facts are permitted to be used by me in this alternate universe into which I have entered—that is clearly ruled by the jewish-controlled world bankers that are supressing mulsims.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
meatbrain
Cite the specific statement I made to that effect.
Put simply, Ogre, you’re lying again. I’ve said no such thing.
False: “Islam in America should be declared what it is: a treasonous organization that exists to overthrow the government.” Organizations cannot be declared ‘treasonous’, Ogre. All you can possibly do is convict individuals of treason. That, therefore, is the practical outcome of what you suggest.
None. I read what you write, and respond.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
meatbrain
Ogre’s made a lot of statements here. Which specific ‘point’ do you refer to, Kender?
February 28th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
kender
So come on already…..what’s Ogre think?
February 28th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Ogre
Of course I’m lying! I have no choice but to lie! After all, if I were to tell you that my favorite color was blue, and you determined that not to be a true fact, then ispo facto, I’d be lying. In other words, the only way that I cannot “lie” here is to actually wait for you to post what I think and what I mean and interpret what my brain thinks.
After all, elephants are larger than giraffes, the warren commission didn’t have ANY elephants on it, therefore the Warren commission was a Zionist plot to destroy Islam in Israel.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
kender
Damn….I can’t remember…...meatpie? Did I get Ogre a fuscia pets or a few chia pets?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
meatbrain
The one about me failing to provide him with an answer to what specific question, please?
As I have already pointed out, I do not read minds. I know what Ogre thinks only from what he writes. That does not mean that I will automatically accept his claims as true.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Ogre
So why are you running away from my question? Why do you still continue to refuse to answer a simple question of Kenders? I’ve proven, based on your words, that a baby giraffe is bigger than a baby elephant, yet you continue to deny, run, and avoid. Typical “left-winger.”
February 28th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
meatbrain
Discuss your proposal to convict Muslims of treason en masse, Ogre.
If, that is, you can find the courage to do so.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
kender
And were there any chia pet owning elephants on the warren commission?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
Ogre
No, YOU discuss YOUR proposal to disband the Warren Commission—that is, if you can find the courage to do so.
That’s what your post was all about, as I have proven. And no, just as you are doing, it doesn’t really matter WHAT is written, for I have discovered that I can read YOUR mind, too! Hey, this is fun!
(In case you missed it yet again, YOU are the only one who wants to convict anyone of anything—including all Christians of heresy to be punished by burning at the cross).
February 28th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
meatbrain
“Islam in America should be declared what it is: a treasonous organization that exists to overthrow the government.”
No, it doesn’t. This blog is still very new. I expected that it would take a while to build any sort of audience. And I am frankly unconcerned at this stage whether it has a borad audience or not.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
kender
Do you laugh as hard while you are typing your comments as we do when we type ours?
Does it give you any satisfaction at all to know that you are giving us great entertainment? Because we are very satisfied with the level of entertainment you provide us, and we believe that this should be a two way street, a tit for tat, an…even trade, so another question:
Are you as satisfied with your level of idiocy as it pertains to an ability to entertain others as we are satisfied with your level of idiocy being commiserate with that of turnip?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
meatbrain
I’ve made no such proposal. You have again chosen to lie about what someone else has said, Ogre.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
meatbrain
You’re incapable of serious discussion, Kender. This is quite clear now. You can stop providing further evidence. No more is needed.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
kender
equate to convict all muslims and toss ‘em in jail?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
meatbrain
I explained that already, Kender:
I didn’t suggest that Ogre wanted to “toss ‘em in jail”. I did ask if he (or you) wanted to do so.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Ogre
I am truly sorry for lying. Really, I am. But you see, I have no possible way NOT to lie. How can I? When I post one thing, but you determine it to be something else, then how is it possible for me to NOT lie? The only way is for me to read your mind and type what YOU think that I am thinking. And I’m just not capable of that, although I did think, for a minute there, that I could do just that.
Or wait…AM I truly sorry for lying? I… I don’t know. Only YOU, Meanbrain, with your truly superior intellect, will be able to tell if I am lying about being sorry for lying. So am I? Once again, I beg you to tell me what I am thinking, for without you, I cannot know.
Or I am I lying about THAT? Perhaps I do know if you know if I know if I’m lying…and I’m lying to cover up that I know that you know that I know.
Can you tell me what color my favorite chia pet giraffe is? Please?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
meatbrain
False. The decision to lie is a conscious one, Ogre. You, and no one else, are responsible for the false statements you have made.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Ogre
Ah, so I WAS lying about being sorry about lying because I did know that you knew that I knew that you knew what I was thinking! It all makes sense in a Pinky and the Brain sort of way.
Based on that conclusion, the only logical path is for you, Meatbrain, to stop lying! Since you have declared the statements false that I have made, and you are the one who is determining what thoughts I have, then YOU are the one who is lying, but you’re trying to blame ME for it!
I’m insulted! I’m offended! Damn you, stop lying by proxy!
February 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
meatbrain
How is an organization “declared treasonous” under US law, Ogre?
How will branding all American Muslims as traitors in any way assist in the fight against terrorism?
These are simple questions, and follow naturally from your original post. You can answer them directly, or you can run away — again.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Ogre
And Kender brings up a very good point from which YOU are running away! Where did I go? WHERE did I go?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Ogre
That’s another good question, Meatbrain. Please do, expand and expound—giving us the ONLY correct, factual answer that exists, as only you can do: “How is an organization “declared treasonous” under US law?”
I’d answer it, but you already know the answer, for you have proclaimed loudly to the world that you, and only you, can determine my thoughts and meanings behind my words. I dare not attempt to answer it, for any answer I post will most assuredly be a “lie” in this land.
We eagerly await the correct, true, and factual Meatbrian-world answer.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Ogre
Kender, I don’t know. We’ll have to check with Meatbrain and see what our tiny minds tell us. I’m thinking it’s what we do every night.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Ogre
But I could be lying.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
meatbrain
Then do so. You made the proposal. Tell us how it can be accomplished.
Run away, Ogre… again. Neither you nor Kender possess the intellectual courage to discuss your own ideas.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Ogre
Aha, an answer!
Apparently, Kender, I’m back from “Run away.” Have you ever been there? Lovely lakes. A wonderful telephone system. And many interesting furry animals—including the majestic moose.
A moose once bit my sister. No really! She was carving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end of an interspace toothbrush given to her by Svenge – her brother in law – a Run Away dentist and star of many Stay Here movies: “The Hot Hands of a Run Away Dentist,” “Fillings of Passion,” “The Huge Molars of Horst Nordfink.”
February 28th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
kender
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/7559/intelct.wav
February 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
kender
I once lived on a molar of Horst Nordfink. Very nasty place to be on taco night.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pm
kender
You are kind of a veg.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Ogre
Oh, and Meathead, is this statement okay, allowed, or allowed to be determined to be factual in your universe?
My ultimate goal is the elimination of the ***** as the most dominant organized criminal enterprise in the United States.
Am I allowed to say that? Do you have problems with that sentence? Feel free to fill in the asterisks with whatever things that are in my brain.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
meatbrain
Questions remain that still seem to terrify you, Ogre:
How is an organization “declared treasonous” under US law?
How will branding all American Muslims as traitors in any way assist in the fight against terrorism?
These are simple questions, and follow naturally from your original post. You can answer them directly, or you can run away — again.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Ogre
And you continue to refuse to answer MY questions and only demand answers to your own personal made-up questions. Wait—is this a game? Did it take me this long to figure it out? How stupid can I be! Kender—I figured it out! Since Meatbrain is the only one who can determine what I am thinking and what I intend, despite what I write, and since he cannot answer questions asked of him, WE are supposed to provide the answers for him to questions that WE ask. I don’t know how I missed it.
So, Meatbrain, since you claim that only 232 angels can dance on the head of a pin (see how that worked, Kender? We’re supposed to ask the question in our minds, and Meatbrain will use some mind-technique to provide us with his answer, as he has done for me, and then we just automatically have his answer); why do you love terrorists?
Why are you so opposed to anyone saying “My ultimate goal is the elimination of the ***** as the most dominant organized criminal enterprise in the United States,” Meatbrain?
February 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
kender
It amazed us that the gireleffant, (named Joe BTW) could attain such a state of faith that his faith alone turned that dark purple tongue so light colored and brighten up our world.
Then we found out that Joe had painted the tongue while we slept. We found out that Joe’s belief was a sham, a ruse, a put on, a joke.
He only professed to believe what he claimed to believe so he could sit and laugh at us when we believed and responded to what he claimed seriously.
A religion arose from Joe’s great fuscia con job. A religion that relied on platitudes and belief at all costs of the utopian ideal.
Yes, Joe was the first “Con-Fuscian”, from which we get the word “confusion”, which marks the major unifying thread that links all disparate stances of those on the left side of the aisle, and those that take too seriously that which flies from the keyboards of those that adhere to the one system thaa can save you from “ConFuscianism”, and I am speaking of course, of Toro Fecundians.
Save the Earth, Join the Toro Fecundians Today.
February 28th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Mikey
Don’t let these two bother you, meatbrain. They’ve proved your point rather well.
February 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Real Teen
I am wondering, as I non-partisan reader, what your thoughts on the Warren commission meatbrain. And, since it appears it really is made of meat, what kind of meat would you say your brain is made of?
February 28th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Raven
Hey MeatBrain, what flavor Kool Aid do you drink???
February 28th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Mikey
Kender, you’ve failed to point out any BS coming from meatbrain. I’m open-minded enough to appreciate a good argument regardless of the political affiliation its speaker claims. You’ve made no argument. It would appear that your only purpose here is to derail meatbrain’s post.
I can’t say I blame you though. I’ve seen him school you before in his posts and comments here and elsewhere, and it must be very difficult not to react like a schoolyard brat when your ignorance and immaturity are exposed like your underwear being pulled up over your head from behind.
February 28th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
kender
Criminal!!!!
What part of lying don’t you understand????
February 28th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Mikey
If that’s the case, spell it out for me. You haven’t yet.
February 28th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Romeocat
I like tomatoes, but only if they’re really ripe and flavorful. However, I’m not too fond of the color red, since it tends to make me look flushed. I’d rather look at the color blue – it’s so restful and calming.
Well, except when the color blue is meloncholy, and then I get sad. I don’t like to be sad, so maybe red isn’t that bad a color, since it’s pretty cheerful. But then, it’s also kind of angry, and angry things make me sad.
This is a dilemma.
What about green? Green is a nice growing color, except when it makes you look like you’d like to throw up, and then it’s bad, which makes me mad, and then I’m sad.
sigh What is a girl to do?
Oh! Since meathead reads minds, he could tell me which color won’t make me feel bad, mad OR sad! And then I could get a chiapet in that color, and send it to find Ogre. Perhaps it would even snuggle up with Kender, and then Kender would have to bring it back to me, and I could give him a BIIIIG hug for returning my chiapet. I suppose Ogre would follow, since my chiapet found him, and then I could hug him, too.
Then we could all go hunting for moonbats! Oh, that would be fun! But then we might wipe them all out, and we wouldn’t have as much fun anymore.
This is a dilemma.
[gee, where have I heard that before?]
February 28th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
kender
Either way, I think this is highly entertaining. The fact that veghead spends almost half his online time to attack TWA is a fascinating case study in obsession, I think, anmd may be a sign that veghead needs help…..
While almost half of his comments are from himself, the amount that is from TWA members goading him into fits of drool flinging, eye popping pigheadedness is proof of how entertaining we find him.
I love it when he catches us on slow days and we can keep ourselves entertained so easily…....it’s kinda like gluing a quarter to the sidewalk and watching the bums try to pry it up…...cheap and satisfying fun that only highlights the utter desperation of the sadness that bad choices will lead you to experience.
February 28th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
meatbrain
In fact, I made no such claim about Ogre’s proposal.
You’re welcome to rebut, Kender. Just point to the comment in this thread in which I said that Ogre suggested that “muslims should be rounded up”. Go ahead… where did I say that?
What part of lying don’t you understand, Kender?
February 28th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
meatbrain
Poor Kender. You are so easily confused.
I am saying what I already said: I did not at any time claim that Ogre stated that “muslims should be rounded up”. I am saying that you are deliberately lying when you accuse me of making that claim.
What part of lying don’t you understand, Kender?
February 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
meatbrain
I explained that in my original post, Kender:
Now, Kender: since you knew I had not claimed that Ogre said anything about “rounding up muslims”, why did you choose to lie about what I had said?
February 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Mikey
A rounding up of some sort is the logical conclusion of Ogre’s view, though. Unless by “People who are of the religion of Islam” somehow doesn’t mean “all Muslims.”
February 28th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Raven
Well Meathead,
Terrorism won’t be settled by waving a white flag. Nor will appeasment, apology, acceptance settle it. Bargaining won’t help.
Living in denial of the problem isn’t going to help. And diplomacy is useless with these (non) people.
The terrorists want to kill us. You. Me. Kender. Ogre. Bush. John Kerry. Bill Clinton. Kos. The Code Pink bimbos. Everyone who calls themselves an American.
They will do whatever it takes to reach their goal. They will not offer up a truce. They won’t accept any compromise.
Islam is a religion of hate. Of murder. Of death. This religion wants to see itself infect the entire world with it’s perverted teachings and ways of life. Like it or not, sometimes it takes war to stop these things. Sometimes the greater good of mankind overrides the relatively small numbers of risked lives during these wars. Tolerance is a good thing when the tolerators are not the target. America and free people are targets. We cannot afford tolerance any longer.
It’s a matter of survival.
You think we spread hatred and bigotry? Hmm. You’re a very warped soul. Indeed. You’re blind and stupid, and that is not an insult it is fact.
February 28th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
meatbrain
It’s one possible logical consequence of Ogre’s proposal, yes, but not the only possibility. I did try to get Ogre to explore further the practical outcomes of his suggestion. Apparently, thinking things through to that level of complexity is not something Ogre wants to do.
February 28th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Mikey
“Apparently, thinking things through to that level of complexity is not something Ogre wants to do.”
Nor any of his associates, apparently.
February 28th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
Ogre
Wow. Almost an inkling of a coherent thought, only 100 comments later.
Now, the next step in training the Meatbrain mind, now that he has admitted that there are actually possible options and opinions that have appeared in minds not his own, is to admit that he cannot accurately determine all possible outcomes of all possible options in all minds.
In other words, Meatbrain, if you honestly want to start a discussion, putting words in someone else’s mouth by posting your own personal interpretation of someone else’s thoughts and opinions is NOT an intellectually honest way to do it.
But I don’t expect you to understand that step so quickly since it took you 100 comments for you to actually admit that there is another possible action that was considered in the original post other than YOUR personal, unchangeable, wrong, “logical” outcome.
Maybe in another 100 comments…
February 28th, 2006 at 8:29 pm
kender
Meathead? Are you a traitorous islamic bastard that is wanting to overthrow the U.S. government and install sharia law?
February 28th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Raven
Nah Kender…Meathead shut up because a woman smacked him down.
ROTF.
yes that would be me
hehe.
February 28th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 9:43 pm
Raven
;)
February 28th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
meatbrain
You have noticed,
RomeocatRaven, that I haven’t suggested appeasment, apology, bargaining, denial, or diplomacy in dealing with terrorists?Terrorists are criminals. They should be dealt with as criminals. When necessary, the military should be deployed to hunt them down and eliminate them.
I would point out, however, that ‘terrorist’ is not a synonym of ‘practitioner of Islam’. Would you agree with that statement?
Here I must differ with you. You, like Kender and Ogre, seem determined to treat Islam as a monolithic whole. There are many sects and many schools of philosophy within Islam, as there are within Christianity and Judaism. Some schools of Islamic thought do indeed advocate violent jihad. Some do not.
The oft-expressed opinion that all Muslims are bloodthirsty terrorists itching to saw off heads is just as much an expression of religious bigotry as is the blood libel directed against Jews throughout the centuries.
I believe that Kender and Ogre do, yes. I don’t know your views well enough yet to make that assessment in your case,
RomeocatRaven. I doubt seriously that you are joined at the hip in all your opinions with either Kender or Ogre. If and when the opportunity arises, I will evaluate your opinions on their own merits.No,
RomeocatRaven, it is indeed an insult. From what I know of you so far, you are certainly intelligent enough to formulate a cogent argument that does not employ ad hominem attacks. Perhaps one day you may even choose to do so. Until then… well, the fact that you choose to make personal attacks tells us something about you, doesn’t it?Thanks for visiting.
February 28th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
meatbrain
Proven liars like yourself do not get to lecture others on the topic of intellectual honesty, Ogre.
I put no words in your mouth at all. (Lying about what someone else has written is a tactic employed by Kender and yourself.) I pointed out the logical consequences of your proposal — nothing more.
If those logical consequences upset you, I suggest you think through your proposals more carefully in the future.
February 28th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
meatbrain
If you do not know the definition of ad hominem, Kender, I suggest that you look it up.
February 28th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
kender
February 28th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
kender
WHAT ABOUT THAT MATERHEAD?????
February 28th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
meatbrain
Yes, she did, and I thank you for catching my error. I have made the correction.
February 28th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
Romeocat
Well, I like Raven, so I don’t mind if you said that I said what she said. Often I do. Sometimes, I don’t. But then, meathead knows what I think, so he can tell y’all what it is.
Or, um, what it was.
Perhaps even what it might be.
Y’know, I think I’d like a pink moose that likes to eat orange grass and wear turquoise frills. I think that would make me happy.
Or maybe not. Idon’t know, but meatball might.
February 28th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
Romeocat
Oops! I’m so sorry! I meant meathaed!!!! PIMF!
March 1st, 2006 at 7:42 am
Ogre
Thanks for proving my point SO eloquently with the very first words of your latest reply to me. The first TWO WORDS even. Well, this is comment number 128 or so on this post, so another 72 or so and perhaps you will learn how to have an intelligent conversation. Until then, I shall continue to let you blather on about what words are in my head, the meanings of those words that only you can determine, and what facts actually exist in the world that is meatbrain.
Oh wait, upon re-reading of your comment, I realize that you have once again regressed into completely determining my thoughts, ideas, and motivations. Damn. This might take 4 or 5 hundred comments, if at all, for you to understand that you are not the sole determiner of all that is truth and real.
Tell me, please, in your world, is there such thing as gravity? Inquiring minds want to know. No, really. Are discussions of gravity allowed? Or is that non-factual? Are there any facts that exist outside your head? Is it possible for anyone to know any facts without you telling them what are facts?
Why do you keep running away from my questions? I’ll ask again, because you continue to run and hide:
Why are you so opposed to anyone saying “My ultimate goal is the elimination of the ***** as the most dominant organized criminal enterprise in the United States,” Meatbrain?
March 1st, 2006 at 8:28 am
Raven
ooh RCat…Meathead is getting us mixed up.
I drink GREEN Kool Aid.
You drink PINK Kool Aid.
Meathead drinks….Herbal enriched, organic all natural People’s Choice Kool Aid…endorsed by the DNC.
LOL
March 1st, 2006 at 8:43 am
meatbrain
You’re afraid to discuss your own proposal, Ogre. You didn’t think it through, and now you are desperate to avoid any more discussion of it. Your questions are intended only to derail the thread. That’s why I ignore them.
These are the outstanding questions at this point:
You’ve got two choices, Ogre: continue to demonstrate your intellectual cowardice, or stop evading and discuss your own proposal honestly.
Choose.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:51 am
kender