Short-term Memory Loss

Wow, talk about disingenuous… I said BUSH never claimed the threat was imminent, in fact, he said that we shouldn’t wait till it was, and you bounce back with some of his administration did…. Since you are at that, let’s not forget the DEMOCRATS that said “imminent,” so from that, and using your line of reasoning, it’s the Clinton’s administration and the Dems that claimed the threat was “imminent.”

I’m delighted that my blog has provided you with some fodder… keep reading and you might learn something. But, somehow I doubt it.

Cheers and farewell.

Oh, and in case you probably were not aware, when you post about someone’s post, it is considered polite to link back to the post you are posting about. I made the same error as a newbie so I’m passing on what I learned. Please don’t be offended

I also ought to comment that WMD’s by their nature can be used at any moment, that we haven’t found any speaks to poor intelligence of the world’s and the Clinton’s intelligence services/agancies. NOT to anything else. Hell, even the Dems believed it.

Wow, talk about disingenuous… I said BUSH never claimed the threat was imminent, in fact, he said that we shouldn’t wait till it was, and you bounce back with some of his administration did…

Yes, you did — and that’s another example of your habit of being disingenous.

Is it now your assertion that the many members of the administration who put forth this idea were acting against the President’s wishes? That they were, in fact, basing the case for war on a falsehood?

Since you are at that, let’s not forget the DEMOCRATS that said “imminent,” so from that, and using your line of reasoning, it’s the Clinton’s administration and the Dems that claimed the threat was “imminent.”

The Commander-in-Chief bears ultimate responsibility for sending the armed forces into war. The Commander-in-Chief in question is George W. Bush.

Did the “imminent threat” that the Bush administration warned us of repeatedly in the months leading up to the war exist, or not?

You are absolutely amazing! Seldom have I come across someone who is so adept at twisting words. But let’s take Bush’s EXACT words from his STOU speech in January 2003 because that is what I based my statement on.
“Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans—this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes.
Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.
The dictator who is assembling the world’s most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages—leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind, or disfigured. Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained—by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. International human rights groups have catalogued other methods used in the torture chambers of Iraq: electric shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape. If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning.”
A few days following the speech, Charlie Rangel (D-NY) said “I had hoped that the President would have given us more confidence that the young men and women would not be placed in harm’s way unless absolutely necessary to protect this great land of ours. The start of war should be accompanied by a sense there is a patriotic need to fight for the security and protection of America and the world. However, President bush failed to demonstrate that there is an immediate threat from Iraq to us or our allies.”

This is one of the first instances of the lie that Bush said the threat was imminent. He did not, and I stated that he did not. You can repeat the lie as often as you wish, but the fact of the matter is that Bush did not state that the threat was imminent nor did he imply that the threat was imminent. Find me a quote directly from Bush where he states that the threat from Iraq was imminent and I will post a correction on my blog and give you full credit. Your perfidy in this is transparent to anyone who can read my entry on which you based your entry and compare what I said to what you say I said. Call in all the other blogs who interpret what they think Bush said all you want, but they are writing an opinion. I have provided the direct quote from his SOTU speech from which you on the left have based your lie.

So much blather, so little attention paid to the questions you were asked: Is it now your assertion that the many members of the administration who put forth this idea were acting against the President’s wishes? That they were, in fact, basing the case for war on a falsehood? Did the “imminent threat” that the Bush administration warned us of repeatedly in the months leading up to the war exist, or not?

You can answer those questions, or you can run away from them. Either way, we’ll learn a little something about you, GM.

Your argument seems to be this: Everything that needed to be said to justify the invasion of Iraq was said by President Bush in those few paragraphs from the State of the Union Address. We should all ignore everything said by everyone else in the Administration before and after those few minutes, ‘cause they were just kidding around with us.

Do you really think that anyone over the age of four is going to be fooled by this? The administration — which Bush ostensibly controls — sold the case for the war in Iraq on the thesis that Saddam’s weapons were an imminent threat to the security of the United States. Deal with that fact, bubba.

Your perfidy in this is transparent to anyone who can read my entry on which you based your entry and compare what I said to what you say I said.

What did I say you said, GM? C’mon, show us all the exact quote where I lied about your statements. You’re big on exact quotes. Show us one to back up this accusation.

And since you brought up the topic of lies: In the exact quote from Rep. Rangel that you posted, he did not state that “Bush said the threat was imminent”. What he did say was that “Bush failed to demonstrate that there is an immediate threat from Iraq to us or our allies”. That happens to be true. What you said happens to be false.

Methbrain, you are too funny. The method you use is to take one sentence from a long, thought out writing and pick it apart. There is no need to answer the question you have asked because it is a trap. The fact is that you are using a forked tounge tenchnique, and a cowardly, Murtha, way of arguing. You lefties are straight up cowards, that want to cry mama at the first sign of blood. Your representatives in Congress don’t even have the guts to follow through with their cowardly beliefs. Taking what the president’s spokesman said, when everyone at the time believed that, and then saying that GM is being deceptive is nothing more than deception itself.

I won’t waste any more time with you, you know you are a liar, and you know that your techniqe here is only to seek to get a rise out of people, and get yourself a little traffic.

There is no need to answer the question you have asked because it is a trap.

If you can’t answer the question, just say so. But the question remains.

Taking what the president’s spokesman said, when everyone at the time believed that…

False. Not everyone believed that Iraq was an imminent threat. GM even quotes Rangel as saying so. But don’t let the facts get in your way…

I won’t waste any more time with you, you know you are a liar,

Show us the lie. Or run away. We’ll learn something about you either way.

Meatbrain, is it your argument that Saddam Hussein was not a threat in any way, shape, or form? And that Clinton was ultimately wrong in 1997 & 1998 when he said that Iraq was a threat to America? And that the 12 other countries that verified and corroborated that intelligence LIED too? And that all the other Democrats on the Intelligence Committe who had access to the same exact intelligence as Bush misread or misunderstood the intelliegence because they’re stupid? And that all the Democrats who voted FOR the war before they were against it are all brain-dead DUPES? And that they are were duped by a single man whom they have maligned as ignorant and STOOPID? Why, that would make Bush the most incredible genius – and the Democrats the most retarded morons! Even Hillary, whom I’ve heard people slaver over as being The Most Intelligent Woman In America snort has turned out to be a poor schmuck – duped by a man you all dismiss as a dumb cowboy. How severely disappointing for you.

So which is it? Is Bush a God of Cleverness and Intelligence and Hillary at el mere dumb dupes? Or are they changing their tune because they know dumb dupes like you will actually believe them?!

Here’s a little trip down memory lane, much of which is before The Most Fearsomely Clever Man Who Ever Lived Because He Can Dupe ALL The Super-Smart Democrats became president:

John Kerry said, soon after we attacked Afghanistan, that “this doesn’t end with Afghanistan by any imagination. . .It is absolutely vital that we continue for instance [after] Saddam Hussein.”

“He [Saddam Hussein) has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members…this much is undisputed.” – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D)

Carl Levin stated on Dec. 12, 2001, “The war on terrorism will not be finished as long as [Saddam] is in power.”

“It is clear however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” -Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D)

Jay Rockefeller said in Oct. 2002, “I do believe that Iraq poses an imminent threat.”

“Americans really need to understand the gravity and legitimacy of what is happening with Saddam Hussein. He has been given every opportunity in the world to comply…Saddam has not complied. Saddam Hussein is pursuing a program to build weapons of mass destruction.” -Senator John Forbes Kerry (D)

“The best way to end the threat now is a new government in Iraq.” -President William Jefferson Clinton (D)

“We have known for many years that Saddam is seeking to develop weapons of mass destruction.” -Senator Teddy hiccup Kennedy (D)

“Certainly there’s a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.” -General (ret) Wesley Clark

“I will be voting to give the President of the United Sates the authority if necessary to disarm Saddam because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our national security.” -Senator John F. Kerry (D)

“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, and that he is a tyrant, and his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction can not be tolerated. He must be disarmed.” -Senator Teddy Kennedy (D)

“We are convinced that as long as Saddam Hussein remains in power he will continue to threaten the well being of his people, the peace of the region, and the security of the world.” -President William Jefferson Clinton (D)

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam Hussein is in power.” -Al Gore (D)

“I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country, and I think Iraq and Saddam Hussein present the most serious and imminent threat.” -Senator John Edwards (D)

“Saddam Hussein has demonstrated repeatedly that he will resort to terrorism or aggression if left unchecked.” -President Bill Clinton (D)

“And he [Saddam Hussein] could make those weapons available to many terrorist groups which have contact with his government, and those groups could bring those weapons into the US and unleash a terrible attack on our citizens.” -Senator Jay Rockefeller (D)

“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally Israel. For more than two decades Saddam has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons.” -Senator John Edwards (D)

Oh, BTW, whatever happened to all those pesky WMDs anyways? Try listening to someone who would know: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20154

Ahhh, meatbrain, here is your exact quote: “It’s disingenuous, at best, to claim that the Bush administration made no argument that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in the build-up to the war — whether or not that exact phrase was used.” That is called a straw man argument. I’ll show you why. My statement quoting Murtha with an aside by me: “I’m not blaming anybody else because I saw all the intelligence reports. All of them indicated we had imminent danger.” [Imminent danger? That is something Bush never claimed!...”

There you have it, my statement on which you based your whole argument. “Imminent danger? That is something Bush never claimed”

Your exact quote at an early part of this and to be specific, in comment number 4: (me) “Wow, talk about disingenuous… I said BUSH never claimed the threat was imminent, in fact, he said that we shouldn’t wait till it was, and you bounce back with some of his administration did…”

(you) “Yes, you did — and that’s another example of your habit of being disingenous.”

So, you are a liar, but not even a very accomplished one at that. This will be my last comment on this or any other thread of yours so, feel free to respond or not. You are a prime example of a troll. You can’t back up what you say (other than by pointing to other’s opinions – not facts) and you toss calumny like it was a mouthfull of watermelon seeds. Sorry, but you are all wet.

Meatbrain, is it your argument that Saddam Hussein was not a threat in any way, shape, or form? And that Clinton was ultimately wrong in 1997 & 1998 when he said that Iraq was a threat to America? And that the 12 other countries that verified and corroborated that intelligence LIED too? And that all the other Democrats on the Intelligence Committe who had access to the same exact intelligence as Bush misread or misunderstood the intelliegence because they’re stupid?

Um, no. None of those are in any way related to my argument in this post, which deals with the Bush administration’s deception in claiming that they did not portray Iraq as an “imminent threat” in order to justify the war.

But thanks for demonstrating how devoted you are to the straw man fallacy.

Oh, BTW, whatever happened to all those pesky WMDs anyways? Try listening to someone who would know:

Tierney never found any WMDs in Iraq. What’s your point?

Ahhh, meatbrain, here is your exact quote: “It’s disingenuous, at best, to claim that the Bush administration made no argument that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in the build-up to the war — whether or not that exact phrase was used.” That is called a straw man argument.

No. You clearly do not understand the phrase.

So, you are a liar…

Where’s the lie? You still have not cited one.

This will be my last comment…

To quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail: “Run away! Run away!”